Face, Unrealistic Expectations, and Life (...that should just about cover it)

[Ludlum'sDaughter14]

I'm still debating whether it's wise to write, much less post, this thread, but by the Lords of Kobol, what do I have to lose? These are just my thoughts on a topic that's been doing cartwheels in my brain, so please take them as such - no more, no less.

As I've recently taken to rewatching a few A-Team episodes and starting a new A-Team fanfic (after a long hiatus), I've been thinking about my previous experience with the show... especially the entity ominously known as The Crush. You know what I'm talking about - that's what initially brought 90% of us here, right? - so don't try to claim plausible deniability.

He's called Faceman for a reason: he is unbelievably good-looking. And well-dressed. And dapper. And charming. In the course of one episode, enough witticisms escape his lips to make the Bard himself jealous. (This may be a slight exaggeration, which is another of his many talents.)

BUT... (let us pause here for dramatic effect)

As I have been watching episodes again, and going through my Pinterest collection of A-Team stuff again, and hearkening back to when I first saw the show, I've had a sort of dual-consciousness experience. On the one hand, I can remember the feelings I felt, the excitement of my A-Team obsession, the rollercoaster of my Worst Crush Ever (or possibly Best, if we're evaluating the quality and not the intensity of the experience).

But although I'm reliving the memory of feelings I had then, I'm not actually experiencing all the feelings themselves. This is because a few years of compressed hardship have made me a very different person on many levels. And it's given me some objectivity to assess why exactly I felt what I did, and especially why, though some of those affinities for the character of Face, the face of Dirk Benedict, etc. etc. can be called up in small moments, they never last for me anymore.

I think it's because I've become aware that the person I was crushing on was not, in fact, real.

In fact, I think the secret behind the nearly-universal appeal of the Faceman (except to those Murdock girls with a different definition of fun) is the fact that Face is so very Not Real.

Allow me to explain.

Face is what many of us ladies see as The Perfect Guy (my, I've suddenly become really fond of capitalizing words since I started this post. It will pass.) Refer back to my earlier description for details. I don't wish to reiterate every single facet of The Crush as we know it, but I will say that on top of having Dirk Benedict's natural attractiveness plus great outfits and a great haircut, Face is suave, debonaire, dramatic, heroic, funny, and just vulnerable enough to periodically incite a girl's nurturing instinct (and lots and lots and lots and lots of fanfiction...). He's cute, smart, funny, and athletic. We're not talking triple threat - we're talking quadruple knockout punch. Or whatever.

The problem is, Templeton Peck was made for TV. His flaws are all funny and easily forgivable, especially when he's separated from viewers like us by a TV screen and now a couple decades. I used to get annoyed that people in my life couldn't talk as fast and be as funny as he was. I was a little disappointed that I was rarely as funny as he was. Then one day, the realization came to me: every single thing that Face says or does is scripted. Every one. Except for the occasions when Dirk ad-libbed something, and even then, his goal was to stay in character. The reason Face can come off as such a fount of lyrical perfection (I'm not even sure that's the right expression, but you get my drift) is because a team of (usually) smart and (usually) funny writers got together and wrote out all his lines for him beforehand. It wasn't real!

So, honestly, it's really understandable that Face is so, er, well-loved by those of us in the female population. He's the Ken doll to the perfect Barbie we half-wish we could be. He's the Instagram account of the person whose life looks fantastic, because they only post about the good, and the beautiful, and the perfect makeup and the happy kids. But the Ken doll is not real, and neither is the life represented only in filtered Instagram posts. Life is messy and hard, and relationships take work that involves both people changing and growing in painful ways if they want to stick it out. That's the one thing Face was absolutely not good at, and why in real life, any relationship with him would be doomed to disappointment.

This is one of the reasons why I'm so glad I found this fan site and had the chance to explore the further works and real-life thoughts of Dirk Benedict. Because, I confess, for a while I thought he was essentially like the character he played - perfect, and shallow, and fastidious about suits and ties. But in real life, he's much cooler than that. He's got a lot going on in his mind and his life, he's a well-rounded person, and he hasn't had it all together at every single moment of his life, which he also owns up to - because he, like the rest of us, is a real person.

I was recently part of a group discussion at a seminar and one person pointed out that we enjoy reading biographies of famous and successful people because we get insight into their low moments, mistakes, and failures, the times when they felt nervous or lonely, and we feel immensely reassured, because these people who are thought so highly of and who often went on to do great things had the same problems we do. They weren't always well-dressed and successful, and they didn't always have the right thing to say or make the best impression on those around them. And they still made it okay. If they could succeed, maybe I can too.

I think the danger of believing too much in the fictional Facemen we run across is that we miss out on the beauty of a real existence. We expect perfection, so we're disappointed when we don't find it in other people and crushed when we see what a hopeless cause it is to look for it in ourselves. We are naturally tuned to seek beauty and symmetry and A+, but we're never going to find it all in people, including ourselves - not here, not yet. Loving someone is not the same as a crush, because when we crush on someone, all we see is how perfect they are and how much we want to forever take part in that perfection. As soon as the honeymoon period is over, we wake up and realize our romantic partner, our friends, our family, all have a seemingly endless capacity to frustrate us with how flawed they are. That's why loving someone isn't dependent on their being flawless. Loving someone is choosing to stick with them despite their flaws, and even to accept those flaws as a part of who that person is, and to accept all of that person, knowing it won't be easy, but it will be worth it.

I like that Dirk has been very candid about some of what he's struggled with, especially in his writings, because it gives hope to the rest of us. If the man behind the face (or the Face) isn't perfect, why should we expect ourselves to be? And if he's been able to progress through his own life by working hard and making mistakes and learning, why shouldn't we be able to find our own brand of "success" in whatever form through a similarly non-linear approach?

I started this post with a vague idea and ended with a rant on perfectionism - a theme I can't stop coming back to beat, because I'm not convinced the horse is truly dead (wow, that sounded a lot more morbid than expected). I don't know if there's a direction in this stream-of-consciousness mess, but I personally started out in a funk and ended up a little more happy with life by the end. So I guess this is an impromptu pep talk? (shrug)

If you've managed to get all the way to the end, I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on anything so much as hinted at here. Or you can just tell me I should get more sleep. I probably won't disagree with you.

[LittleMonkeyDog]

Originally Posted by Ludlum'sDaughter14

I'm still debating whether it's wise to write, much less post, this thread, but by the Lords of Kobol, what do I have to lose? These are just my thoughts on a topic that's been doing cartwheels in my brain, so please take them as such - no more, no less.

I'll let you in on a little secret. Been thinking about this topic too ... So don't worry about it. You're not alone

Originally Posted by Ludlum'sDaughter14

As I've recently taken to rewatching a few A-Team episodes and starting a new A-Team fanfic (after a long hiatus), I've been thinking about my previous experience with the show... especially the entity ominously known as The Crush. You know what I'm talking about - that's what initially brought 90% of us here, right? - so don't try to claim plausible deniability.

Crush? What crush? Don't know what you're talking about

Originally Posted by Ludlum'sDaughter14

He's called Faceman for a reason: he is unbelievably good-looking. And well-dressed. And dapper. And charming. In the course of one episode, enough witticisms escape his lips to make the Bard himself jealous. (This may be a slight exaggeration, which is another of his many talents.)
BUT... (let us pause here for dramatic effect)
I think it's because I've become aware that the person I was crushing on was not, in fact, real.
In fact, I think the secret behind the nearly-universal appeal of the Faceman (except to those Murdock girls with a different definition of fun) is the fact that Face is so very Not Real.

As a (pre)teen Templeton Peck sure was my Prince Charming because - indeed - he had it all! He was handsome, cute, smart, ... (and I could go on and on), but indeed he was/is a fictional character. As you described so perfectly LD14: he was the perfect Ken to the Barbie I wanted to be back then as a teen (although he wouldn't have been a very faithful one ).

Originally Posted by Ludlum'sDaughter14

This is one of the reasons why I'm so glad I found this fan site and had the chance to explore the further works and real-life thoughts of Dirk Benedict. Because, I confess, for a while I thought he was essentially like the character he played - perfect, and shallow, and fastidious about suits and ties. But in real life, he's much cooler than that. He's got a lot going on in his mind and his life, he's a well-rounded person, and he hasn't had it all together at every single moment of his life, which he also owns up to - because he, like the rest of us, is a real person.

I like that Dirk has been very candid about some of what he's struggled with, especially in his writings, because it gives hope to the rest of us. If the man behind the face (or the Face) isn't perfect, why should we expect ourselves to be? And if he's been able to progress through his own life by working hard and making mistakes and learning, why shouldn't we be able to find our own brand of "success" in whatever form through a similarly non-linear approach?

I often wondered about that as well until I met him in person and realised what a cool guy he truly is. A real person indeed who opened up to us about some of the struggles he has been dealing with throughout his life and I truly admire him for doing just that.
There is no such thing as 'perfect'. Nothing or nobody is perfect after all. We all have our little flaws and that's okay. We just have to learn to live with this. I guess that's what life is all about: a struggle sometimes but also a constant learning process. So we should just enjoy the beautiful moments of it and try to hang on throughout the struggles we will face at some point(s) in our lives and never stop believing that we'll make it through to that eventually as well. Was that also a rant? Or am I being too philosophical at this point

[Ludlum'sDaughter14]

Originally Posted by LittleMonkeyDog

I'll let you in on a little secret. Been thinking about this topic too ... So don't worry about it. You're not alone

Crush? What crush? Don't know what you're talking about

As a (pre)teen Templeton Peck sure was my Prince Charming because - indeed - he had it all! He was handsome, cute, smart, ... (and I could go on and on), but indeed he was/is a fictional character. As you described so perfectly LD14: he was the perfect Ken to the Barbie I wanted to be back then as a teen (although he wouldn't have been a very faithful one ).

I often wondered about that as well until I met him in person and realised what a cool guy he truly is. A real person indeed who opened up to us about some of the struggles he has been dealing with throughout his life and I truly admire him for doing just that.
There is no such thing as 'perfect'. Nothing or nobody is perfect after all. We all have our little flaws and that's okay. We just have to learn to live with this. I guess that's what life is all about: a struggle sometimes but also a constant learning process. So we should just enjoy the beautiful moments of it and try to hang on throughout the struggles we will face at some point(s) in our lives and never stop believing that we'll make it through to that eventually as well. Was that also a rant? Or am I being too philosophical at this point

LMD, first you say you've been thinking about this topic too, and then you try to deny the existence of The Crush! Heresy!

It sounded too logical to be classified as a rant to me, but I'm the last person you should be asking about whether it's "too philosophical," since I personally deny the existence of such a possibility. So basically we're all imperfect and we're all in denial about something.

[Flygirl]

I very much enjoyed this rant (yes, I did make it all the way through to the end!) And not just because it is in stark contrast to the political rants I've been posting on Facebook lately... *Ahem* The concept of the perfect mate/friend/family member resonates with me, but from the other perspective. I tend to be more comfortable around imperfect people. I think it's because it took me a long time to get comfortable with my wildly imperfect self, and eventually I came to embrace the crazy, common-senseless, hot-headed, forgetful, tactless and obsessively passionate person that I am. So I try to help others do the same. But - maybe because of this - I have a hard time with people who demand perfection. I like imperfection in my TV & movie characters, too. I actually disagree about Face (or even Starbuck) being in any way "perfect". In terms of physical attractiveness, sure. But they were supremely flawed guys and that was part of the attraction for me. Maybe most of it.

Perfection doesn't exist, and if it did, it would be hella boring. I think most of us get disappointed with ourselves when we don't live up to our own high expectations. The most "real" people, to me, are ones who can admit and own their flaws and shortcomings, even if it's difficult, and are all the more accepting of flaws in others. The people who have such high standards for others that they can't stay in a relationship for any length of time... Well I guess I should feel sorry for people like that, but I don't. We put enough stress on ourselves without someone constantly making us prove we're good enough. A relationship - whether romantic or otherwise - should always be ugly and honest. Which means you have good days and bad days. You have days when you're angry as hell. But I don't believe I would ever make someone I care about feel that s/he isn't "good enough" for me. I think doing so is a sign you haven't dealt with your own demons yet...

[Ludlum'sDaughter14]

Originally Posted by flyngirl5

I very much enjoyed this rant (yes, I did make it all the way through to the end!) And not just because it is in stark contrast to the political rants I've been posting on Facebook lately... *Ahem* The concept of the perfect mate/friend/family member resonates with me, but from the other perspective. I tend to be more comfortable around imperfect people. I think it's because it took me a long time to get comfortable with my wildly imperfect self, and eventually I came to embrace the crazy, common-senseless, hot-headed, forgetful, tactless and obsessively passionate person that I am. So I try to help others do the same. But - maybe because of this - I have a hard time with people who demand perfection. I like imperfection in my TV & movie characters, too. I actually disagree about Face (or even Starbuck) being in any way "perfect". In terms of physical attractiveness, sure. But they were supremely flawed guys and that was part of the attraction for me. Maybe most of it.

Perfection doesn't exist, and if it did, it would be hella boring. I think most of us get disappointed with ourselves when we don't live up to our own high expectations. The most "real" people, to me, are ones who can admit and own their flaws and shortcomings, even if it's difficult, and are all the more accepting of flaws in others. The people who have such high standards for others that they can't stay in a relationship for any length of time... Well I guess I should feel sorry for people like that, but I don't. We put enough stress on ourselves without someone constantly making us prove we're good enough. A relationship - whether romantic or otherwise - should always be ugly and honest. Which means you have good days and bad days. You have days when you're angry as hell. But I don't believe I would ever make someone I care about feel that s/he isn't "good enough" for me. I think doing so is a sign you haven't dealt with your own demons yet...

You are so right, and I have a lot of admiration for you for accepting yourself the way you are. That's something I still struggle a lot with - it's hard to believe otherwise when people have always told you you're not good enough to be accepted - and it definitely shows up both in having a hard time accepting personal flaws as well as accepting the flaws of others. I've grown to where I'm uber-tolerant of people in some areas and I enjoy diversity of backgrounds and ideas, but I still find myself being judgmental at times, which I hate. I'm honestly in a limbo-land where I get frustrated with people who seem judgmental and closed-minded but also frustrated with people who don't seem cautious enough. And it really reflects on me more than on them.

Insisting on perfection from others is really an attempt at controlling one's life to make it go just the way we want, which is related to a fear of being out of control. Because if I can't make sure I get what I want, how do I not end up with a miserable existence? There's way too much philosophy and spiritual belief involved in the basis of this reasoning to be unpacked here (it could be unpacked according to a couple different belief systems, although naturally I would consider mine the most complete). But essentially, we have to grapple with the truths that (1) we are not in control of anything but our own choices, (2) there is a higher power which does exercise direction over our circumstances, and (3) we can only know that we are on the best path of existence, experiencing the right and necessary kinds of imperfection accompanied by glimpses of perfect joy, when we live rightly aligned to the higher power controlling the universe around us.

It's interesting to me that on this level, a pantheistic or even generically spiritual belief can align with Christianity. The difference lies in whether this higher power is personal or impersonal, how much accountability we have for our actions, the nature and seriousness of our imperfection, how to deal with it, and how we reconcile our desire for a world of beauty and peace with our existence in a world with too much of the opposite. In true Christianity, God's forgiveness is secured forever, which means that those forgiven should be able to forgive other equally imperfect people. Unfortunately, people still want to exercise control and still try to find security in thinking themselves better than others, leading to judgmental criticism and rejection instead of love. This attitude is far from exclusive to the Christian community, but it has become a hallmark of a certain era of American cultural "Christianity," although it goes against everything it claims to stand for. I think my experience with both positive and negative examples in the Christian community has fueled my passion about the subject and a desire to live loving all people equally, which is something I'm still growing in and need just a little supernatural help for.

Well, there you go - you said you enjoyed the first rant, so I gave you another. I guess this is my way of learning to accept myself: being more forthcoming about what I'm really thinking instead of worrying so much about how it could be taken. Thanks for sharing some great food for thought.

[WelshPoppy30]

LD14 you have nothing to worry about I really enjoyed reading your post, and totally understand how it naturally went and concluded on the subject of perfection.
Yes many of us have been there and had our crushes. Had I been around at the time, "Face" and "Starbuck would have been on my list of crushes My word! how greedy does that make me sound?...a list I didn't have many really.
The only thing I have never understood is the hysteria that can surround "celebrities" where literally some fans want a piece of that person it's scary.

I agree, life is messy and isn't an empty moulded plastic shell that depicts what are considered (who decides?...) desirable aesthetics and a pretend lifestyle, it may be fun to do but life is not a filtered photo on a social networking site, you can't get perfection because it doesn't exist.

The "faceman" and "Starbuck" characters I also agree, I don't think they have ever been perfect, there is a vulnerability there when you watch them.
Both characters I think want something more or wished things were different but neither commit for fear of disappointment even though that does happen and was unavoidable at times, but when it can be avoided, they would rather live for the moment and make the best of the situation they are in, as do the people around them. Its also quite funny to watch when "Face" doesn't always manage to pull the wool over the eyes I don't know if anyone else thinks the same or I'm looking at it wrong I don't know? Besides the cigar smoking, you can see he brings his sense of humour through either way. It's so nice to know that he enjoyed playing both characters so much.
I certainly am not going to deny that he was/is a very handsome man, and come on now, I can't believe that his amazing head of hair hasn't had it's own mention He is also a gentleman and has said that is what he has brought his sons up to be as well.

BTW, I'm exactly the same, I always worry about what I say to people for fear of offending or getting things wrong, or I'm not saying what I mean properly (I'm doing it now actually as I type lol....oh well I have commited now I shall carry on!) my previous posts/replies are no exception. I also enjoy so much being part of this site and I feel posting has helped my confidence, I actually want to thank you all who have read and replied to me, it means so much and I apologise if I end up explaining myself even though I know you totally understand what I am saying, it's just the way I am, the way my mind works. It's taken years to build myself up again and I am also trying to accept who I am, and I am getting better at speaking my mind more and hope I do it respectfully whenever I share my thoughts.
That's one of the reasons I'm a fan of Mr Benedicts and gets my respect because I love his honesty, he speaks his mind, and he encourages people to be themselves.

Dont feel bad LD14 I think we can all be judgemental to an extent, we can only judge eachother by our actions, it's just when the wrong assumptions are made of a person and the life they live without even getting to know something about them initially, only then I feel minds can be made up, and decisions can be made on whether to continue being around that person/group of people.

At the end of the day, we're not perfect, we're unique and that's good enough, we shouldn't be ashamed of who we are, or what others think despite what is considered (again, who decides?...) ideal expectations from others who are afraid to be themselves

[Ludlum'sDaughter14]

Originally Posted by WelshPoppy30

LD14 you have nothing to worry about I really enjoyed reading your post, and totally understand how it naturally went and concluded on the subject of perfection.
Yes many of us have been there and had our crushes. Had I been around at the time, "Face" and "Starbuck would have been on my list of crushes My word! how greedy does that make me sound?...a list I didn't have many really.
The only thing I have never understood is the hysteria that can surround "celebrities" where literally some fans want a piece of that person it's scary.

I agree, life is messy and isn't an empty moulded plastic shell that depicts what are considered (who decides?...) desirable aesthetics and a pretend lifestyle, it may be fun to do but life is not a filtered photo on a social networking site, you can't get perfection because it doesn't exist.

The "faceman" and "Starbuck" characters I also agree, I don't think they have ever been perfect, there is a vulnerability there when you watch them.
Both characters I think want something more or wished things were different but neither commit for fear of disappointment even though that does happen and was unavoidable at times, but when it can be avoided, they would rather live for the moment and make the best of the situation they are in, as do the people around them. Its also quite funny to watch when "Face" doesn't always manage to pull the wool over the eyes I don't know if anyone else thinks the same or I'm looking at it wrong I don't know? Besides the cigar smoking, you can see he brings his sense of humour through either way. It's so nice to know that he enjoyed playing both characters so much.
I certainly am not going to deny that he was/is a very handsome man, and come on now, I can't believe that his amazing head of hair hasn't had it's own mention He is also a gentleman and has said that is what he has brought his sons up to be as well.

BTW, I'm exactly the same, I always worry about what I say to people for fear of offending or getting things wrong, or I'm not saying what I mean properly (I'm doing it now actually as I type lol....oh well I have commited now I shall carry on!) my previous posts/replies are no exception. I also enjoy so much being part of this site and I feel posting has helped my confidence, I actually want to thank you all who have read and replied to me, it means so much and I apologise if I end up explaining myself even though I know you totally understand what I am saying, it's just the way I am, the way my mind works. It's taken years to build myself up again and I am also trying to accept who I am, and I am getting better at speaking my mind more and hope I do it respectfully whenever I share my thoughts.
That's one of the reasons I'm a fan of Mr Benedicts and gets my respect because I love his honesty, he speaks his mind, and he encourages people to be themselves.

Dont feel bad LD14 I think we can all be judgemental to an extent, we can only judge eachother by our actions, it's just when the wrong assumptions are made of a person and the life they live without even getting to know something about them initially, only then I feel minds can be made up, and decisions can be made on whether to continue being around that person/group of people.

At the end of the day, we're not perfect, we're unique and that's good enough, we shouldn't be ashamed of who we are, or what others think despite what is considered (again, who decides?...) ideal expectations from others who are afraid to be themselves

And I really enjoyed reading your thoughts. We definitely agree on a lot of these things.

A list of crushes is greedy? I hope not... When I was in the last year or two of high school, I made a photo collage of all the movie/TV characters I'd ever seriously crushed on throughout my life. Granted, there were only about eight total, most of the crushes were brief, and I had gotten over one before starting on another, but still... My sister also kindly informed me that I have a type, or in her words, "they all look the same." Fabulous. Actually, I think crushes and a whole lot of other topics are funny and just part of life as a human being. It's only awkward when other people try to act like it's not part of the human experience or like there's something wrong with you for feeling that way. People would probably deal with the social and relational struggles common unto man a lot better if relaxed, productive conversations were the norm instead of leaving things like romance and social anxiety (I know, I know, very different topics) to only be joked about or criticized.

You've also brought up what flyngirl said about Face and Starbuck being flawed, and I meant to mention that when I replied to her, but got a bit carried away and forgot. I think I should correct my earlier statement and say that Face was definitely flawed, but it was usually a more airbrushed kind of flawed. Half the time, he was doing his best to hide that he had any real problems whatsoever, so although he was a truly vulnerable character with a lot of relatable insecurities and fears (hey, that's a big part of why I liked him, because I could relate, and only over time have I realized just how much [insert cringe emoji here]), he never actually dealt with them in a meaningful, lasting way during the show. Which makes sense, considering only the last season was serious enough to approach this territory (and it did, but without resolution). And that's also why boatloads of fan fiction have been written about Face dealing with his insecurities... ad nauseam. Which I will admit to having taken part in as well to a hopefully relatively moderate degree... [another cringe emoji]

What else was I going to remark on? Oh yes, Face definitely doesn't always fool people, especially the rest of the team, but it's funny when his attempt either totally flops, or the person just goes along with him because they don't mind. And his hair is a given - did I not mention "Dirk Benedict's natural attractiveness" and "a great haircut"? Should probably also give credit to the colorist since the base hair color, amount of highlights, etc. changed enough throughout the show (and Dirk's career, see BSG) to make an observant observer suspect some slight skillful enhancement to his naturally good genetics at various times. See original post.

And I'm so glad you've found support on this forum! That's been the experience of several of us - I came here a couple years ago during perhaps the hardest time of my life and found a community with wonderful people, some of whom have become good friends. And I definitely also admire Mr. Benedict for being so comfortable with speaking his mind and letting other people think what they may. It's the complete opposite of someone like Face who would try to tell people what they want to hear to get on their good side, and like flyngirl pointed out, that doesn't lead to real relationships, because it's not the real you. There's definitely moderation, wisdom, and tact somewhere in the balance of openness - saying every single thing that pops into your head at any moment is not recommended for anyone, can I speak from a little experience here? - but most of us probably spend more time on the side of too cautious rather than too comfortable. Talking about our fandoms and everything related seems like a great way to help with that.

[WelshPoppy30]

Oh yes of course you mentioned his hair.....do you know what?, I'm really sorry LD14 I have been so engrossed reading your post and everyone elses who has replied that once I came to share my thoughts I completely forgot that you did mention it, so my apologies
That's really cool that you created that collage, I can't recall having as many as 8 crushes and I'm glad you don't think having a list of them is greedy

I also believe that having a crush can be for different reasons as in, an admiration for a talent, the sort of character a person plays, all of which have been the reason for my own crushes and as already mentioned admiring a character like "Faceman" because he is flawed in an airbrushed way which I couldn't agree more with, in that he is relatable and I liked the 5th season for that reason because it did make that approach and it was disappointing the way it ended, I believed there was more to it all and I think it's great that you have taken part (not cringy at all ) in the fan fiction to dig deeper with his character to show a different side and what you think he is all about as an individual. Oh yes definitely some of the people he tried to con definitely go along with it because they don't mind

I'm sorry you have had such difficult times LD14, I definitely feel there's a lot of support here and it's wonderful that you have made such good friends I definitely can be too cautious and the more comfortable I feel being myself etc that I can I only hope that will balance out in time

[Flygirl]

Originally Posted by WelshPoppy30

I agree, life is messy and isn't an empty moulded plastic shell that depicts what are considered (who decides?...) desirable aesthetics and a pretend lifestyle, it may be fun to do but life is not a filtered photo on a social networking site, you can't get perfection because it doesn't exist.

Wrt aesthetics, we had a discussion a while back on my FB debate group about what makes a person attractive. Answers ranged from the obvious cultural ideals of beauty to purely emotional responses... To individual preferences for personality and shared interests. I guess it's all of the above. So you believe in love at first sight? If so, you probably believe these other measures are irrelevant.

Wrt social media... Yeah, totally agree. We all try to make ourselves look put-together online because hell, why not? These people don't know any better and if there are a lot issues in our real lives, it's nice to have this little place in the cyber world where we are our perfect selves. It's nice, but I've found honest conversation is actually better for your psyche.

Originally Posted by WelshPoppy30

I certainly am not going to deny that he was/is a very handsome man, and come on now, I can't believe that his amazing head of hair hasn't had it's own mention He is also a gentleman and has said that is what he has brought his sons up to be as well.

Don't we have a thread for the hair? We should!! I think there's a thread for the short-lived moustache, does that count? Lol

[Flygirl]

Originally Posted by Ludlum'sDaughter14

That's something I still struggle a lot with - it's hard to believe otherwise when people have always told you you're not good enough to be accepted - and it definitely shows up both in having a hard time accepting personal flaws as well as accepting the flaws of others. I've grown to where I'm uber-tolerant of people in some areas and I enjoy diversity of backgrounds and ideas, but I still find myself being judgmental at times, which I hate. I'm honestly in a limbo-land where I get frustrated with people who seem judgmental and closed-minded but also frustrated with people who don't seem cautious enough. And it really reflects on me more than on them.

I think everybody does that from time to time. I like to think I'm not judgmental, at least in the way I define judgmental. I don't think I'm better than other people but if I think other people are wrong about something, I'll argue it to death... I forgot to add "stubborn" to my list above. That's a rather obvious one.

I will fight tooth and nail with someone and still consider them my equal, or even admire them greatly. I think that comes off as judgmental to some. There's maybe one person I've ever met who I would consider irredeemable... That person is extremely unkind and not worth my time, IMO, and so I haven't had anything to do with her in 20 years... aside from that, I think it's a level playing field and we can all learn something from each other.

Originally Posted by Ludlum'sDaughter14

Because if I can't make sure I get what I want, how do I not end up with a miserable existence? There's way too much philosophy and spiritual belief involved in the basis of this reasoning to be unpacked here (it could be unpacked according to a couple different belief systems, although naturally I would consider mine the most complete). But essentially, we have to grapple with the truths that (1) we are not in control of anything but our own choices, (2) there is a higher power which does exercise direction over our circumstances, and (3) we can only know that we are on the best path of existence, experiencing the right and necessary kinds of imperfection accompanied by glimpses of perfect joy, when we live rightly aligned to the higher power controlling the universe around us.

It's interesting to me that on this level, a pantheistic or even generically spiritual belief can align with Christianity. The difference lies in whether this higher power is personal or impersonal, how much accountability we have for our actions, the nature and seriousness of our imperfection, how to deal with it, and how we reconcile our desire for a world of beauty and peace with our existence in a world with too much of the opposite. In true Christianity, God's forgiveness is secured forever, which means that those forgiven should be able to forgive other equally imperfect people. Unfortunately, people still want to exercise control and still try to find security in thinking themselves better than others, leading to judgmental criticism and rejection instead of love. This attitude is far from exclusive to the Christian community, but it has become a hallmark of a certain era of American cultural "Christianity," although it goes against everything it claims to stand for. I think my experience with both positive and negative examples in the Christian community has fueled my passion about the subject and a desire to live loving all people equally, which is something I'm still growing in and need just a little supernatural help for.

I don't consider myself very religious, although I was raised Catholic and believe in God. Among other major issues I have with organized religion, I've found that spending too much time surrounded by the same group with the same ideas, reverberating off one another, breeds sanctimony in a lot of people... Certainly not most religious people I know, but some. And I think that's damaging. It's akin to only exposing yourself to one political view.

I'm not getting political, I promise.

Only to say that you can't grow and learn in an echo chamber, and you may lose the concept of not having all the answers. Or at least, all the answers known to mere mortals.

Originally Posted by Ludlum'sDaughter14

Well, there you go - you said you enjoyed the first rant, so I gave you another. I guess this is my way of learning to accept myself: being more forthcoming about what I'm really thinking instead of worrying so much about how it could be taken.

Please don't stop with the rants. I love the way you write!!!

P.S. I am the opposite. I don't think at all before I say/type stuff and it gets me into a LOT of trouble. I think there must be a happy medium.

[LittleMonkeyDog]

I really enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts. I also admire people who are comfortable with who they are, FG (you know I love you ). And I sympathize with you too WelshPoppy. Once upon a time I worried about what I said to people for fear of offending them/saying the wrong thing to a point where it made me unhappy and insecure ... I think (hope) I've learned my lesson.

Also it's true that the character of Face wasn't flawless (at all), but I especially loved how he pretended to have everything under control

The support on the forum is indeed wonderful! I made a couple of really good friends here (you know who you are ) and I couldn't be more grateful. As most of you said I also admire Mr. Benedict for being able to speak his mind and be 'himself'. And you're right WelshPoppy, he's a true gentleman (I would even dare to say he did a great job in teaching his son how to be one after meeting him in Liverpool).

[Flygirl]

Originally Posted by LittleMonkeyDog

I really enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts. I also admire people who are comfortable with who they are, FG (you know I love you ).

I love you too, LMD!!!! Jealousy about the Scotland CC aside...

[Ludlum'sDaughter14]

WelshPoppy:

No worries, I wasn't trying to say you should have remembered - I have the same issue, and when I reply to others on here I have to reread what they wrote at least once or twice [EDIT: actually, several more times than that] and I still forget things... Which is what I'm about to do now as I try to quick reply to everyone.

Oh, and I agree that people get crushes for lots of different reasons. My crushes usually are based on whatever my brain likes for looks, while a friend of mine's are based more on personality - she's often been drawn to "bad boy" fictional characters, although her current boyfriend is not that way at all, but she still likes him a lot. Probably better for a real-life relationship.

Flyngirl:

Yes, the echo chamber is a real phenomenon that does a lot of damage no matter where you fall on a particular spectrum. I still think it's hilarious that when I went to a college with relatively traditional standards, I became even less "conservative" (in general, not necessarily politics, but I can't think of a better word) because I met a lot of new people who were different than I am and who didn't have the same ideas that I took for granted, so I questioned a lot and came out with a new set of beliefs and practices in many areas.

Oh man, the mustache thread sounds familiar, but I don't remember if there's a hair thread... yet. Maybe I'll do some digging when I'm more awake.

LMD:

Yes, the fact that Face tried so hard to appear to have it together when he clearly didn't was probably some of the best comedy surrounding his character. He ended up putting his foot in his mouth a few times, at least...

All:

Aww, you guys are so sweet, and I'm so glad to know you. Group hug!!!

[Wim]

Well this angle is quite interesting. Needless to say I belong to the 10% :-)
My crush went more in the direction of Marla Heasley

[Flygirl]

Originally Posted by Wim

Well this angle is quite interesting. Needless to say I belong to the 10% :-)
My crush went more in the direction of Marla Heasley

Marla was hot!!!

[Ludlum'sDaughter14]

Originally Posted by Wim

Well this angle is quite interesting. Needless to say I belong to the 10% :-)
My crush went more in the direction of Marla Heasley

I was thinking specifically of you and John when I left a margin of 10%.

Originally Posted by flyngirl5

Marla was hot!!!

Yes, she definitely was.

[Wim]

[QUOTE=Ludlum'sDaughter14;28324]I was thinking specifically of you and John when I left a margin of 10%.


:-) Thank you for thinking of us!
Come to think of it ... maybe we should think of a male counterpart for "the Dirkettes".
Any suggestions?

[Flygirl]

Benebros?

[LittleMonkeyDog]

Originally Posted by flyngirl5

Benebros?

[Wim]

Originally Posted by flyngirl5

Benebros?

Not sure, but is on top of the list at this moment!
Thanks flyngirl5

[WelshPoppy30]

How about the Debonairs?

[Wim]

Originally Posted by WelshPoppy30

How about the Debonairs?

Hmmm, not sure

I was thinking more in the line of:
"The Facemen"
"The Dirk Afficionados"
"The Facefans"
"The Dirkians"

[WelshPoppy30]

Originally Posted by Wim

Hmmm, not sure

I was thinking more in the line of:
"The Facemen"
"The Dirk Afficionados"
"The Facefans"
"The Dirkians"

No worries Wim
Believe it or not "Facemen" was actually going to be another one of my suggestions I should have put it up there (never mind ), I really like the "Dirkians" too.

It is a little quiet here isn't it? As you say everyone's busy, it's a busy time of year, I have actually managed to avoid the town centre completely this year, plus there is a load of roadworks going on, I try to avoid that as much as I can lol. Anyway I hope you're all well and looking forward to Christmas

[Flygirl]

Haha... Facemen! That one has my vote.

I noticed it's been quiet on here. Have all the Dirkettes and all the Facemen just settled down for a long winter's nap?

[Vballspieler]

Originally Posted by flyngirl5

Haha... Facemen! That one has my vote.

I noticed it's been quiet on here. Have all the Dirkettes and all the Facemen just settled down for a long winter's nap?

yes. you want us to be more active, you need to dig us out